endless iterations

I know that. All the damn Californians who have moved to Texas need to move back to frigging California and their namby pamby no smoking paradise. Bah! Can you tell I'm cranky about this?

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melyndabelinda.livejournal.com

Here here! Just send me the addresses and I will join you in the hate mail campaign.

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alainn-sorcha.livejournal.com

Preach on, sistah!

Fuckers.

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I'm going to hunt them all down. And then I'm going to work and finding their certifications for their homes and flooding them all! Mwuhahaha.

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*waves Dostoevsky and a pack of cigarettes*
Russian lit must be enjoyed with smoking! How dare you impinge on my right to be a moody Slavic studies person?

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a311renegade.livejournal.com

You should move to NC. People smoke everywhere and big tobacco has their money in everything.

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For me this is good news - I can finally sit on the top floor and metro and BREATHE at the same time! Metro was doing soemthing tricky in the first place tho to let people smoke in there, they must have got themselves defined as a bar or something?

Anyway I'm not sure how I feel about this. On one hand maybe smokers should have their little havens where they can go out to places they enjoy and smoke. But there's no question that it is a public health concern. And the little haven theory would be okay if it was only places like metro. Because there are plenty of other coffee shops everyone else can go to. But as far as clubs and bars go its inescapable.

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water-damage.livejournal.com

Hey Amanda- I have a favor to ask of you. Some russian guy linked a picture of me to his journal. http://www.livejournal.com/users/partizan_bosnuk/61050.html

Is he being mean about my picture?

I really appreciate your letting me know, but if he is being mean, you don't have to tell me what he is saying. Just let me know if he's being mean.

<3

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ekatarina.livejournal.com

I am afraid I am going to have to agree with

puella on this one.

I have allergies and asthma. Usually they do not bother me, but the wrong brand of cigarettes (usually American ones, actually) can put me on my knees coughing and choking. I have passed out on the front steps of a mall, I collapsed wearing a "running around Europe-sized" backpack at an Irish ferry terminal as a guy was smoking right under the "No Smoking" sign.

I think anyone can do whatever "self-chosen self-destructive" activities they want, as long as it does not effect me.

tsarina if I even visited I would expect to have to accommodate you smoking in your own house because that is your private space. I would take drugs, not go if I felt in the least sick, and be ready to leave if I started reacting. I *do* have a problem if I cannot enter my favourite store, or such places as hospitals and banks because of the gauntlet of smokers out by the doors.

So that is my tuppence.

Ekatarina

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lawnrrd

Bah. Next thing you know, they'll make it illegal to pick up anime chicks. Is that the kind of world they expect us to live in?

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Haha, Californicators! I'm going to have to start saying that now.

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Hehe. Could I work in the lab with you and be an evil scientist?

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Well, Metro has always kinda skirted the legality of the smoking ordinances anyhow.

My thinking is as follows. Smoking is still legal. Yes it is bad. But it's still legal, just as drinking, eating fast food, and driving cars is still legal. All of those things produce serious public health concerns.

I don't like the idea of picking on just one group of people in the name of public health concerns.

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Well, marginalizing the smokers and pushing them out of places isn't going to help much. Such a ban won't force people to stop smoking entirely. It will just drive them out on the street.

I don't mind having seperate spaces for nonsmoking and smoking when dining out and such, I suppose because I've just gotten too used to it. But banning a perfectly legal behaviour bothers me.

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Those rat bastards! If they try to pass that measure, I'll set the city council building ablaze, anime style.

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lyeta.livejournal.com

honey! listen to this: I don't smoke much, right? I'm purely a stress smoker and I can chain smoke long enough to make my lungs and throat regret it for a week. Hence, my smoking tends to occur in a kitchen or with tequila or somewhere.
I lit a cigarette in front of an expensive downtown department store awhile ago. Jacob was with me. He hates to be around anyone smoking. When he told me I couldn't smoke there I argued with him because I was convinced he was just being a fuck. Finally, he took my cigarette, put it out, and turned me around by the shoulders. I was leaning against a no-smoking sign.

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lawnrrd

Anime style? Hm. Now I'm picturing the members of the Austin City Council with massive tentacles stuck in all orifices. Since I don't actually know what any members of the Austin City Council look like, that's surprisingly difficult.

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Most of the comparisons that you made are very different because they do not affect other people in the same direct way. You do not make other people sick by eating fast food. You do not make other people sick by drinking. However you can make another person feel sick by sitting next to them while you smoke your cigarette.

Cars I would say is a better comparison, because they produce pollution that affects people in the same way cigarette smoke affects people. But lawmakers are never going to stop people from driving cars, because we are a car driving society. What they are doing for cars would be the equivalent of making cigarettes with less toxic smoke. But we have already established that consumers aren't interested in those cigarettes. (They exist but hardly anyone buys them.)

Anyway, does that make sense? Other public health concerns such as drinking and the foods you eat can be totally avoided by simply not doing them yourself. But smoking is different.

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Hahah, that's pure brilliance. What a great novel moment.

We wouldn't be worried about this if we were in Russia. Bah!

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lyeta.livejournal.com

I just want to know: why the fuck can't I smoke on the sidewalk???

Let's move to Russia. Or Prague.

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But by doing those things, you do engage in behaviours that have serious consequences for yourself and others. Not to mention that, you support industries that produce a lot of pollution.

Would anyone stand being told when and where they could drive, because of the health concerns of exhaust pollution? No. So why is it okay to police smoking? Because it's a smaller group of people? Because it doesn't inconvenience the people passing the laws?

If you aren't comfortable when someone sits down and lights up, you should either ask that person to move, or move yourself. It should simply be a matter of politeness handled between adults, and not something that has to be bloody legislated.

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I'm all for that! We can buy a big flat in the top of one of those buildings in the Old Town, and have art deco furniture. And smoke, and drink, and eat, and read. I was just reading about the growing market for comics in Czech, so I can translate those for a living.

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He's bitching about floors and elevators being broken I think. What that has to do with you I don't know. Hmm. Want me to kick him anyhow?

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coyotegoth.livejournal.com

But rewarding, nonetheless.

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coyotegoth.livejournal.com

...needless to say, your pain is shared in these here parts.

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It's a sign of the apocalypse, I think.

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tinywarrior.livejournal.com

You can still smoke in my hot tub. : )

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Haha, thank you! The hot tub beats a bar hands down any day.

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water-damage.livejournal.com

I think it has to do with my weight, as he had a picture of me in a swimsuit attached to it. So, yes, feel free to kick him. ~_~

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Points I disagree with-
If there was horrible pollution in a certain place during a certain time I don't think it would be unreasonable to ask people not to drive there if it would help to significantly decrease the pollution. I think its reasonable to ask people to find alternative forms of transportation to help make the air cleaner. Of course that isn't what we're ever really talking about. So just ignore this paragraph. :p

The problem I have with the third little bit you wrote is this- when I go to emo's there is no way to avoid breathing in cigarette smoke. It isn't a matter of standing next to someone who is smoking- the smoke completely fills the room. You can go outside where its easier to breathe- but if you're outside you can't see the band. I completely agree that in most cases it should be handled between the two parties. However when people are smoking in a room that just isn't an option. It fills the room. I'm sure smokers don't want to force anyone else to breathe in their smoke anymore than nonsmokers want to breathe it, but when lots of people are smoking inside that's just what happens.

I feel sick everytime I go to emo's. There are other elements that I can deal with, like how my clothes smell disgusting when I get home. But I don't feel like I should have to feel sick to be able to hear music, espeically when only a minority of the people there are causing the problem that is affecting everyone.

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ekatarina.livejournal.com

I agree with separate spaces if they are effective. I used to do a lot of cross country driving, and eating in a Denny's is fine, as long as I don't have to go to the bathroom. In most US Denny's, I have to walk through the smoking section to get there. If they switched the sections, then I'd be perfectly fine.

As for reactions in general, if I am going somewhere there is likely to be smoking, I'll drug myself up (expensive, and I get dizzy and see things that aren't always there) or not go (erg). If I am walking down the street and I pass a smoker and cough, choke, spit up blood and pass out (only happened twice but it is sucky) I am going to be annoyed. I can't avoid that sort of contact.

So I don't mind whatever you do, as long as I have the choice of participating or not.

You comments about being adults about the whole thing I also agree with. If everyone was an adult then we'd have far far fewer problems. Unfortunately polite smokers like you are affected by the actions of those who throw lit butts out car windows in gas stations (yes, something *did* explode) littering, or stubbing out butts on a jacket when asked if they would be so kind as to move of stop smoking under the no-smoking sign.

Sigh.

In any case, I'd still love to meet you. I'll stand on the balcony or up-wind. That's perfectly fine by me.

Ekatarina

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a311renegade.livejournal.com

One of the girls in our lab needs an assistant to help her feed and kill and cut open 160 monster movie rats over the next 6 months - there you go!

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Couldn't the problem of smoking in clubs be handled by the private sector? Lots of clubs in DC have two floors, smoking and non-smoking. The ones with the bands are non-smoking, not just because the smoking bothers non-smokers, but because lighted cigarettes in crowded areas can burn people, and because the bands like it better. The smokers don't seem to mind, since they can always just go up or down a floor and catch a quick smoke. Shows don't last that long, so most can wait until a break in the live music.

Overall, this is a pretty good solution, and since it's a private establishment its choices don't create that much controversy, because, as the thinking goes, if you don't like it you can just start your own club and make your own rules.

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silentjack.livejournal.com

I certainly hope that Metro gets pool tables. My wagon has been hopping back and forth recently, and dagnabbit, Boddington minus a deathstick just isn't the same.

I have fired away emails today, angry ones, at the lovely folks of the city council...

My plan: rent a house near the Drag, stock it with pool tables, and call it a non-profit snackfood store. Yay, dictation of rights...

Rather, since smokers are the minority, it would be interesting to see whether this minority rises up and claims discrimintation. We should, I think.

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Yes, that sounds like a great solution to me. There would still be some law changes though, stating that you need to establish seperate rooms/floors for smokers and nonsmokers. The clubs aren't going to do it on their own for fear of losing business.

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Why would they be afraid of losing business? The smokers aren't terribly bothered, and the non-smokers are more likely to go to a club that's not filled with smoke. I can't imagine them losing business.

In fact, the whole point of that example was that it was something you could get a club to do on its own, without legislation. Get enough people to petition a club to adopt that policy, and say that a lot of people don't go to the club because they can't stand the smoke, and the club will most likely make the change on its own. Just like a lot of restaurants voluntary make smoking/non-smoking sections.

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Well I said they would be afraid of losing business because all of the clubs and bars here in Austin were very against the no-smoking policy because they said they would lose business. Also because no clubs have actually done that yet, because it's a big hassle and they don't have to and people will come anyway.

I agree that it seems like it wouldn't make them lose business. It seems to me like they wouldn't. I just think the clubs won't do it unless they have to.

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Of course a strict no-smoking policy will make them lose business. Non-smokers don't want to go somewhere that will make them go outside to smoke. The thing I was talking about is not a strict non-smoking policy, it's a compromise that doesn't seem to hurt their business at all.

I think the 'people will come anyway' theory depends on the region as a whole. Sure, there will be some people in every place that don't mind clouds of smoke, and some clubs cater specifically to those crowds. But other clubs know their clientele wants separate floors, and they make the move to accommodate them.

Look, clubs are businesses. If they have any serious reason to think a lot of people aren't coming to their club because it doesn't have a two-floors policy, they'll institute a two-floors policy. They're not going to need legislation in order to do something that will get them more business. And if one club owner is stupid enough not to adopt that policy, some other club owner will adopt it, and take all that business away from the first one. That's how the free market works.

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